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Yesterday I went on a weekend stroll through Pasadena, stopping in book stores, boutiques, a coffee shop, and a salon for my bimonthly mani-pedi. A typical Saturday afternoon I suppose. Except there was one thing that was slightly different than recent Saturdays past. I wanted to be ravaged by nearly every guy I saw. I mean white guys, black guys, big guys, skinny guys, punk rock looking guys with tattoos to brawny coffee shop baristas, to the little Vietnamese guy who gave me my manicure! IT WAS CRAZY!!! I felt like an animal in heat. The reason I say this was a slightly exceptional feeling is because since I broke up with my ex, I kind of lost my "mojo" a little bit. I think the whole grief and heartbreak thing did a number on my sex drive.
Well, call it recovery, call it, moving on, call it getting my groove back or whatever you want, all I know was that I was HORNY AS HELL on Saturday. Sometimes, a beautiful day where I feel confident, sexy, and free to be myself does that to me. It's like something about the summer air makes me want to make sweet lovin'. But outside of pleasuring myself (which I have no problem with) what are my options as a single adult woman with healthy sex drive, a sense of moral decency and a lot of self respect?
I have never been a one night stand kind of person. I just know it won't be satisfying for me in the long run (and by long run, I mean after the "deed" is done). I know lots of people are into hooking up but that doesn't appeal to me. The problem though is that I am horny NOW and don't really want a relationship at the moment either. And even if I did want a relationship, the opportunity for one hasn't really presented itself.
Furthermore, even if I was in a relationship, what do I make of who I am as a (sort of) Christian, who happens to be a seminary student who also happened to sign a "Code of Conduct" promising to live a reputable Christian lifestyle? (We all know what that means...no sex.)
This is a difficult reality for me to work through. It especially was when I was more certain of my faith as a Christian, simultaneously having sex with my ex. I used to feel so guilty but not because I was having sex, it was because I DIDN'T feel guilty about having sex! Confused? I'll try to reword it: I felt guilty because I didn't feel guilty! I had remained sex free from the time I was 17 up until the time I was 29. I REALLY tried to "save myself" for marriage, but the older I got, the hornier I got, and I just couldn't take it anymore, especially after I fell in love. Falling in love threw caution, and my "born again virginity" out the damn window, and I loved every sweet, sticky minute of it.
For a while I tried to "exegete" various biblical texts to find a loophole somewhere, but to know avail. While many things in the Bible are legitimately debatable, sex before marriage is pretty clearly a "no-no" no matter how crafty you are in making the Bible say what you want it to say. I mean there are many folks out there who say that the whole sex before marriage thing was quite possibly a rule based on the cultural context of the time. They propose that sex before marriage being a sin was more of a way to protect people from social ostracism. In all of my liberal theological perspectives, I STILL think that is a VERY hard case to make. If you really want to believe in the biblical narrative, you have to acknowledge the teaching that fornication (which in and of itself sounds like a dirty word) is a big fat sin.
To be honest, I just don't think it's fair. One act either is or isn't a sin, depending on your relationship context? What other sin is like that? So the large amount of happy-go-lucky, married, Christian twenty somethings who are getting some, are NOT sinning, but when I, a 33 year old woman have sex with someone I love am? That is just bizarre.
The whole discussion makes me seriously want to know if Jesus ever got horny and what HE did about it when/if he did. I hear people say all the time that Jesus faced the same "temptation" that we all face. But let's be real, me being horny is NOT temptation. It is a natural, physiological, hormonal occurrence that takes place within my body that progressively gets more intense if it is not "taken care of." That is NOT a matter of self control-its biology, and frankly, I am getting sick of sex and my desire to have it, being treated like it's on par with stealing! I don't want to "control" my desires to have sex, I want to entertain them! Granted, I want to entertain those desires in a way that won't make me hate myself in the morning, but I didn't hate myself in the morning when I was "in it" knee deep with me ex. I felt like I was in a mutual, consensual, vulnerable, and loving relationship with a person I cared deeply for, who cared about me the same. It wasn't a lust thing. It wasn't a life commitment thing either, but really, does such a thing actually exist? (The answer to that will be reserved for another blog.)
This year I turned 33. That is the age Jesus was when he died. Can anyone really say that Jesus experienced all the temptation and urges that I have, or will have for the rest of my life, AND can it be assumed that he effectively resisted all of that temptation? How is that possible? Jesus was never a 33 year old single female with MY sex drive!!!
Christian doctrine is by far not the only one that seems to demonize sex either! All of the Abramic faiths are pretty much in the same boat. That means a lot of people are either picking and choosing what they want to believe in their faith traditions, or a lot of us are straight up hypocrites, or are in denial.
One of my favorite political comedians is Al Franken. He used to write for SNL. Well a while back he criticized the VERY conservative Republican congressman Rick Santorum from my home state of Pennsylvania who is a BIG abstinence only supporter. Franken suggested that every person who pushes "abstinence only" education should be required to share their abstinence stories. He challenged Santorum to share his. Santorum never responded.
Franken's challenge made me realize that many people are claiming to believe something on paper that they really don't believe in practice. We could say that it's because we're not perfect, we all fall short, blah blah blah, but I don't buy that. I think it's something deeper, but I am not quite sure what that is. Why (despite many people's beliefs) are people STILL having sex when they are "technically" not supposed to be?
I've noticed a lot of people in various circles that I find myself in who openly share a love for God and a love for (unmarried) sex. What do you make of that? If you are in that boat, how do you reconcile the undeniable contradiction, and what impact, if any is there on your spiritual life/sex life?
Furthermore, regardless of your views on sex and/or faith, do you think Jesus got horny? How do you think he dealt with it? Do you think Jesus pleasured himself? (Oh God, don't strike me down for that one! I am just really curious!)
P.S. If I can't attempt to understand Jesus through the lens of my own vagina what good is God???
Comments
Login or register to post a commentVery, very thought provoking
Very, very thought provoking and the same darn questions I used to ask myself. I will respond later as I'm getting ready for work! I completely agree that God is big enough for us to ask these questions!
Great Post!
XOXO,
Freda
Founder
www.AlphaWomen.com
"Those Who Say It Can't Be Done Need To Get Out Of The Way Of Those Who Are Doing It!"
I know it's rude to answer a question with a question...
What person brought up with a modicum of religious beliefs hasn't wondered this? A pastor's kid myself, I've had this same discussion (often in roundabout ways) a million times, sometimes as the questioner, sometimes the respondent. I, like you, know that it's a difficult question (but what isn't when it comes to the Bible?). Personally, and I suppose this is partially the way I was raised and a by-product of my father's beliefs, it seems to me that if God were to do it right, to become man he would have to take on everything man takes on; otherwise, the endeavor would be worthless. For Jesus to be both, he had to understand the difference between God and Man.
That said, I have no idea what he did about such specifically biological experiences as horniness. When you think about it, though, what neo-Christians do with it is strange.
I recently spoke with my best friend from high school, whose most recent trip home found her running into a slew of classmates, many of whom are married now, if not having kids. The girls I'm speaking of are all the other PKs I knew (we had a lot of churches in town). I remembered something one of them said to me before we graduated about her chosen school, which was, of course, a Christian school of her denomination: "They have an unofficial motto: 'If you don't meet your husband by your sophomore year, your tuition is free.'"
When I relayed this story to another friend, I shrugged as usual and said "Christian girls go to school to get married." He said something I've never thought before: "Christian girls get married so they can have sex." I don't want in any way to belittle Christian women--I once wanted to "save myself," too--but something about this rang true for me. As a little girl I fantasized about getting married very young--if your husband is the only man who is allowed to appreciate you, how can you waste your 20s (i.e., your most beautiful years) not married (i.e., unappreciated)? At one point or another, all of this began to seem, well, unreasonable, and as a woman trying to live some semblance of a Christian life, I haven't found too many Christian laws/beliefs/morals to be unreasonable--why this one?
Because I've grown beyond it, the question, for me, has become "Hasn't Christianity grown beyond that?" It's still a growing, changing religion, isn't it? If it changed between the lives of Moses and Jesus, it must have changed between Jesus's life and the present.
Now, sex seems like such a small thing when we're looking at the scope of an entire religion, but let's face it, it's a huge issue. I know Christian women who have wished they would have had sex before they were married. Today we have far more worries about compatibility than couples two millennia ago, and sex is emphasized in Protestant practices as something beautiful, near Heaven, even. God knows how important it is, and I bet he'd prefer marriages (and promises made thereby) to be made correctly and wisely. Shouldn't sexual compatibility be higher on a list of worries than finding a place for your partner's Star Wars collectibles? I think so.
I can't stress enough: I still don't know what God thinks. Until he lets us know, I guess we're gonna be in the dark on the subject. At the very least, I'm glad we're at a point in time where we don't have to be ashamed to speak of it openly. I'm glad you wrote about this.
Meghanne, what a great
Meghanne, what a great response. I completely agree with what your male friend said. Christian girls get married to have sex. That was my biggest challenge in my twenties, trying not to have sex outside of marriage! The problem, I was so focused on getting married that it put so much pressure on the relationships that were very short lived and I DIDN'T keep my eyes open. These guys were jerks but I just wanted to have so sex so bad because I was on fire. My hormones were nuts and it was so stressful to be that sexually frustrated all of the time. Like beautymark, everyone looked good, it didn't matter I was just horny all the time. I was even afraid to masturbate because I was told that it was wrong to please one's self. That it was selfish and we are supposed to be selfless.
Needless to say, I ended up having sex with many of the wrong men all in my ambition to stay "celibate." There was nothing wrong with my sexual desires, they were normal. The problem was that NO ONE knew how to address sexuality, in or outside the church, in a mature way and we were all left to ourselves to try and figure it out.
All I can say is this, since I gave up on trying to be perfect and told myself it was okay to have sex outside of marriage, when I gave up wanting to be married, I finally started meeting better guys and didn't feel guilty about masturbating. When I felt the most horrible was when I made irrational decisions and put myself in harms way. At least when you approach it like an adult you have choices and options and are will take better care of yourself because it is no longer about right and wrong but about how will this make me feel? What are the consequences of these actions going to be tomorrow morning? Can I get over them? Can I deal with them? Will I feel like shit?
Anyway, this is such a great subject that needs much discussion.
Great Post!
XOXO,
Freda
Founder
www.AlphaWomen.com
"Those Who Say It Can't Be Done Need To Get Out Of The Way Of Those Who Are Doing It!"
Haha! I am in seminary!
Haha! I am in seminary! That's all we do is answer questiosn with questions
Thanks for your perspective and for your willingness to say "I don't know." That is the heart of the matter ain't it? We don't know, yet people often claim with much certainty that they do!
I have a handful of friends that went to Christian schools and from what I've heard I am so damn glad I didn't. My one friend used to joke that massages were foreplay for Christian co-eds. (Back rubs lead to penis rubs!) It was always interesting for me to hear about how calculating some Christians would be just get/give head, and then all the complicated "accountability partnerships" that were sure to follow. At one school where a friend went, you had to have the door open and both feet on the ground when a person of the opposite sex was in your dorm room. If I had those kinds of rules I would have definitely "sinned" my brains out in rebellion.
I didn't have sex at all during those years partly because it was so in my face at my school and partly because most of the college guys (at my undergrad) disgusted me. They were so crass and most of the time didn't care for anything other than beer, sports, and pussy, and I was way too much of a snob for that, and to be honest, I am glad I was.
When you say "Until he lets us know, I guess we're gonna be in the dark..." how would you respond to a person who says that he does let us know-in that big love letter from God called the Bible? (I gag when it's called that!) Does it make you think that those verses are exceptions? or meant for us to translate in a way that is relevant to our culture? If so, what else in the Bible is subject to the same treatment?
Oh, the stuff you mentioned about Protestants is so interesting. I have a friend who is a strong Christian and "saved herself" for marriage. She was 27 when she got married and she had the hardest time "doing it" because she thought for so long sex was wrong, and all of a sudden it was right because she was in the right context to have it. Isn't that crazy!
"I paint my own reality." -Frida Kahlo
I really don't like thinking
I really don't like thinking about Jesus doing the Humpty Hump eventhough there were rumors that he and that Mary Madeglane (sp?) were doing 'something' that Catholics would render inappropriate behavior. Oh yeah - that and she was BC whore who he saved from some serious stoning action or so the story goes according to King James. Talk about taboo.
Not trying to think of him spanking the monkey either! ugh. That is right up there with thinking of my dad or my brother or my nephew doing it and as much as I know it probably has happened - I do not wanna think about it. And I definitely don't want to think of Jesus through any lens that is my Vagina. It's bad enough I have to pay a GYN to do that and Jesus and I are way closer than me and the GYN.
As for the horny ...well, my Mandingo is in Europe until September but thanks to God's inspiration in the Japanese, they created a beautiful, though sometimes scary Extreme Pleasure 2008 device that I can use on any of 8 speeds to get me through those rough points - apparantly I have at least one rough point a night. And its awesome - you don't need a lot of time, and thanks to wet naturals, you lube up, power "ON" .... buzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz oh ahh oohhhhhhhaaaaa...Shiiiiit.
Ok - time to watch Weeds.
xoxo Anje
"I'm selfish, impatient and a little insecure. I make mistakes, I am out of control and at times hard to handle, but if you can't handle me at my worst, then you sure as hell don't deserve me at my best" -
Marilyn Monroe
wow i thought about the same thing
I'm catholic and I used to and still do think about similar things. If Jesus was all God and all human how did he handle his sex drive.
I was okay until I was around 18 and then my sex drive fully kicked in. I knew having sex before marriage was wrong but I soooo wanted it.
When I was around 19, I met someone who I was comfortable with to have sex with and then I started to worry what to do, yeah yeah I was in love and the whole nine yards but I still felt it was wrong (to have sex because I couldn't control myself). I made him get tested long before I even decided to have sex with him because I didn't want to decide to have sex then find out he had a STD. At least I was going to be "smart" about this whole sex thing and protect myself.
Long story short we eventually had sex and I to felt guilty about not feeling guilty. My mom started to notice changes in my body and talked to me one day never asking if I was having sex but about how the church viewed sex before marriage and that she knew how hard the temptation was to resist. She couldn't tell me that she waited for marriage but that she waited until she found the man she was going to marry (my dad). She realized that I was a lot younger (about ten years younger) than she was when she decided to have sex and knew how it impacted on her and how she felt a separation from God among other things. She was worried that I was too young to handle it all.
So I thought long and hard about it and spoke to my boyfriend about it and we decided that we were going to stop having sex until we got married. For two weeks that went well until I found out that I was pregnant with your son. And let's just say the whole waiting thing went through the roof. If you think your sex drive is high now OH MY, it was 100 times more for me while I was pregnant. And since I was already pregnant and I thought that the whole world would know that I was having sex, well what the hell in the words of Marvin Gaye "Let's get it on". (Yeah, yeah I also had the whole good girl image thing to protect, so part of it for me was, that if I one knew I could find a way to justify it to myself and move along with life.)
Anyway, I still felt guilty every once in a while about it and honestly (even though this is hard to admit) that was a reason why I decided to marry him so I could stop feeling guilty about me getting some. (As crazy as that sounds).
I still haven't been able to answer your questions for myself fully but I always say that when I die I would like to be able to sit and talk with God because somethings still has me scratching my head. That is, if I get to heaven when I die but I'm trying real hard although not everyday I succeed.
~ "Seek first to understand, then to be understood."
I definitely don't feel
I definitely don't feel guilty about having sex with non marital potential partners! I figure I could be doing worse things and if a lil release makes me feel better and not want to fire at least 5 gunshots to half the people that annoy me on a daily basis, then Kewl. It's another form of exercise that releases endorphins.
xoxo Anje
"I'm selfish, impatient and a little insecure. I make mistakes, I am out of control and at times hard to handle, but if you can't handle me at my worst, then you sure as hell don't deserve me at my best" -
Marilyn Monroe
The question is not whether
The question is not whether or not you feel guilty, it is what do you make of what the Bible says about pre-marital sex in conjunction with your overall views of the Bible as a source that informs your faith.
Do you just reject that part?
"I paint my own reality." -Frida Kahlo
smart!
This is also a conversation I've had many, many times(sometimes with my dear Meghanne). I'm Italian and I was raised Catholic, I went to Catholic School for twelve years, and I attended numerous Christian weekend retreats. Chastity until marriage was always a virtue that "good" christian kids were expected to have.
Christians teach that Jesus was part God, part MAN. As a man, I know that there is no way that I could NEVER think about sex. Granted, I'm not part God, but I think the sex drive caused by human's link to the animal world applies to all men, even if that man is the Messiah.
Sex and sexuality is a very large part of the human condition. It often defines our roles in our respective societies, and it joins two people in a way that no other union can. The Messiah was created and sent to the earth in male form because, had Jesus been a woman, His message would most probably have never been heard. Jesus was man, he was sent to the Earth to suffer and die a very human death. We know that he had very human emotions, the Gospels tell us of his joys, tears, fears, and passion. It's almost silly to think that Jesus was not aware of his sexuality and his manhood.
If God is Love, and people have sex to express their love (hopefully), then how could sex have become a sin in Christian society? I don't think God would have made sex so pleasurable, physically and EMOTIONALLY, had s/he not wanted humans to do it.
I don't think the question
I don't think the question is whether or not God wants us to do it, but rather does God prescribe a limited context(marriage) that is the only acceptable context in which to do it? It seems that the Bible says yes, there is only one acceptable context, which is marriage, but yet the organic ebb and flow of life seems to say otherwise.
You don't have to convince a lot of people that killing senselessly is bad, or that stealing is bad, or that lying is bad. People usually readily agree that all such things are bad, even if they are guilty of such things from time to time.
In this present era, we gotta do a lotta convincing to make people think that sex outside of marriage is bad. Some Christians (and people of other faith traditions) go as far to say that our disobedience regarding sex is partly to blame for the evil and depravity in the world! Our sexual disobedience has rendered us incapable of hearing from God-they would say. Apparently hard dicks lead to hard hearts!
Personally, I believe that there are contexts in which sex is right or wrong but I don't think it should be defined by marriage. Marriage seems to be an arbitrary distinction these days.
Sex for the sole pleasure of...well sole pleasure seems wrong. That turns sex into a product to be consumed, and that doesn't sit well with me.
Sex for retaliation, vengeance, or to make a point of some sort? Bad.
Sex in exchange for money/goods/services? Bad
Sex to cover/relieve any kind of hurt? Bad
Sex as a means of gaining fulfillment? Bad
Sex as a means of gaining approval from others? Bad.
Forced/coerced/manipulative sex? Bad, bad, bad.
Interestingly, all of the above can and do happen within the context of marriage, but because it is married sex, it is harder for people in such situations to identify it as bad.
On a side note, kudos for the "s/he" distinction when referring to God. I like it.
"I paint my own reality." -Frida Kahlo
Interesting topic
Sex before marriage is a toughie, I too am a Christian and have been raised to believe that sex before marriage is wrong. In a previous relationship I really struggled with this. I wanted so much to do what was pleasing to God but my hormones often got the better of me. I would go to confession, not have sex for maybe a month then back at it again. It really made little sense having sex then going to confession but I struggled on. Anyway after that relationship my conscience kinda got quite a bit quieter and I no longer felt as guilty but still do not partake in the host at mass as I do not feel "pure" enough - but that is another topic.
Sex should be an act of love. Someone once told me when you have sex with someone you share your soul with them, that they will always have a part of you and you a part of them. I have to agree with them for the most part of it.
When I got pregnant with my daughter I told myself that no matter the outcome, I had conceived with someone I loved. The situation was/is far from perfect but what is ever perfect in life anyway. A friend of the family upon realising that I was pregnant and not married was telling my Grandmother basically how terrible it was that I was not married and what would people say etc .... the whole nine yards.. She by the way is not married and probably 50 something, can she honestly say she has never had sex. So I have to ask, is having sex the sin or getting pregnant?? Is it ok to have sex but not get pregnant?? Or as long as people don't know then go right ahead.... but that is a whole other topic!
~ I prefer to be hated for who I am than loved for someone I am not ~
Personally, I think the
Personally, I think the a-hole who is judging you for getting pregnant needs to worry about sinning. People seem hell bent on designating something as a sin based on how socially unacceptable it is. It seems very backwards to me.
I recently started going to an Episcopal church. Both times I've gone so far, they've made it a point to say that EVERYONE, no matter where they are in the journey is welcome to take part in communion, even if you don't believe in God. Their theology is that the body of Christ is available to you, as you are right now. No need for "getting right" first.
This was so freeing and compassionate, and more in line with what I sense Jesus to be about. What good is Jesus, if I have to be made right BEFORE receiving him? Isn't he the one that is supposed to help me get there?
As I went up for communion a young gay married couple was in front of me, and they took communion too. I thought to myself, the Jesus who welcomes the likes of us to his table...that's the Jesus I want to follow.
That feeling of being "pure" enough is a tough one. It's hard to tell if that comes from a good place of healthy conviction or condemning place of shame and Catholic manipulation. (I grew up Catholic
)
I decided a long time ago that I got enough shame and guilt from other people in my life, I didn't need it from God, or the church, so I fired the Catholic ones. (No offense to Catholics-it just didn't work for me.) I have been interviewing to fill the new positions for about half of my life now. We'll see how it goes.
Best regards to you too!
"I paint my own reality." -Frida Kahlo
I had a feeling ...
... that someone would eventually say it. "People seem Hell-bent on making a sin out of things that aren't socially acceptable."
The bible is a collection of works (carefully selected from hundreds = first application of human judgement) written by people ... specifically men. Each is told from the perspective of that particular person (man) taking into account his ideals, morals, experiences, knowledge and judgement at the time of writing the work. Most importantly, taking into account his interpretation of the faith and knowledge bestowed. So you have men writing what they perceive to be their own truth.
My favorite analogy of perspective is that 4 people placed at the 4 corners of the same intersection watching the same accident will tell 4 very different versions of that accident. Try it ... it works. If we apply the same principle here and also account for the hundreds of times this work has been translated (adding even more perspectives to the soup), how can we really be asked to accept the bible as pure truth?
Just allowing for the law of averages, there have to have been one or two mistakes made in it along the way, don't you think? I read the bible just like I read any other supposedly non-fiction literature ... it was true to the writer at the time, but it's not necessarily my truth. Take what makes sense and file the rest away for later.